[Kbi-webcivics] {Disarmed} Re: [IA - members] {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Secretary-General Appoints High-Level Panel on Digital Cooperation | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases
ian.peter at ianpeter.com
ian.peter at ianpeter.com
Tue Jul 17 10:46:12 AEST 2018
Civicus is a well respected international grassroots NGO and I am glad
to see them on such a committee to provide focus on matters that concern
them, such as surveillance, privacy, human rights etc. That is a
perspective certainly needed on this committee. I am also glad to see
members with specific knowledge around blockchain, artificial
intelligence and other emerging technologies being at the table. I think
the business interests there are good - with tech giants such as
Alibaba, Microsoft, Ebay and Google at the table, along with a
reasonable cross section of nation states.
So all in all I don't think it is too bad. Better representation of the
global south might be able to be argued for, and I hope the committee
calls on some of the resources from the old "usual suspect" internet
governance interest groups for their inputs - although I think their
lack of presence on the committee itself might actually be advantageous.
Ian Peter
------ Original Message ------
From: "Todd Hubers via members" <members at lists.internet.org.au>
To: "Internet Australia" <members at lists.internet.org.au>
Cc: "Todd Hubers" <todd.hubers at gmail.com>;
kbi-webcivics at lists.internet.org.au
Sent: 17/07/2018 10:09:58 AM
Subject: [IA - members] {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Secretary-General
Appoints High-Level Panel on Digital Cooperation | Meetings Coverage and
Press Releases
>Interesting stuff Tim,
>
>I had a look at CivicUS, and their platform is what worries me about
>Digital, Internet, and similar advocacy groups: they have almost
>unlimited scope, delving into youth, gender, and climate change. They
>have many "activities" around those focus areas. This is a clear
>departure from "focus". Not only is the scope broad, but it's also
>politically partisan, with no olive branch to gently coax in, and
>convince the ~50% of populations who lean conservatively.
>
>I think the benefit of the internet is the fact that all those
>political issues may be freely discussed. It's the freedom of the
>internet that must be a central focus, not social issues.
>
>So Tim rightly points out a key tool for that, TOR. But where is the
>pinned TOR headline on the CivicUS website. But that's something that
>should be the outcome of a correctly and narrowly defined mission, and
>a strong strategy for reaching goals.
>
>So it looks like CivicUS is something very different to what is needed
>globally to tackle the real problems of the world, but certainly a part
>of the solution.
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 15:22, Timothy Holborn via members
><members at lists.internet.org.au> wrote:
>>
>>(apologies if its' a bit of a rant - typing it - is helping to
>>orientate me)
>>
>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 13:27 Narelle Clark <narellec at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>There is one Aussie, but I don't think he's been here for years (dual
>>>UK based in South Africa). It would be good to touch base and get a
>>>meet up should he make it here, though.
>>
>>I think the US/China leadership thing is quite strategic. It would be
>>great to meet the Australian man noted to be involved. I wonder how
>>CivicUS is similar in any way to my works on WebCivics...
>>Interestingly: https://www.trustfactory.net/ is part of
>>https://www.isolvtech.com/ which is based in SA. Which is a bit
>>different to the local version...
>>
>> they do a bunch of stuff around 'plausible deniability' which is
>>always interesting ;)
>>
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>
>>>Narelle
>>>
>>
>>MY LONGER RESPONSE
>>
>>Thoughts;
>>
>>
>>
>>It is most important solutions are defined rapidly. I think waiting
>>for people to catch-up, isn't going to help them. I hope we can
>>continue to pursue leadership in Australia but not at the cost of
>>ensuring a well-formed solution is made available in a timely manner.
>>
>>In Vint's recent presentation in Australia (perhaps in future - an
>>announcement to members might be made as to ensure the opportunity to
>>know these things are on); Vint remarked,
>>
>>“We have a big problem – I call it the digital dark age – in that we
>>don’t curate our digital content with much care until we realise its
>>too late. So I’m a big fan of trying to create and preserve data, to
>>assure ourselves that digital content can be moved from one medium to
>>another – that we are able to preserve software. Creating a
>>sophisticated regime for curating, preserving and accessing our data
>>is just as important as preserving the original bits of data.”
>>source:
>>https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/internet-past-and-present-vint-cerf-conversation-toby-walsh
>>
>>
>>Negotiating the validity of Universal Human Rights (
>>http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ ); where those rights may be
>>appropriated or denied by way of new medium - as to render meaningful
>>service to proprietary commercial interests of a party (ie:
>>rent-seeking behaviours) isn't something to be entertained lightly;
>>One might place bets on the manifest characteristics through which the
>>qualities of a mediums characteristics to maintain good data-hygiene
>>in some areas; and be allowed to deteriorate in others, will continue
>>to manifest, without good advocacy support - enabling the means to
>>discern the intricacies of good policy vs. old ones, in our emergent
>>'knowledge economy'.
>>
>>Societies and their systems of government need verifiable claims -
>>imagine an agenda that wilfully sought to undermine the social purpose
>>of a court-room. Imagine being subjugated for seeking to protect the
>>relevance of a court of law. Maybe South Africa will be more
>>progressive in these areas than we are... maybe we're simply not
>>equipped.
>>
>>If we're planning for a society that in a realm of dynamic data - is
>>sought to rely upon a basis of hear-say, due to a decline of available
>>options, perhaps the intended representation is that people don't
>>really need courts... these sorts of facetious objects are not
>>entirely without merit... When i was preparing for the TF conference,
>>Anni was curating her WebScience conference (held in Canberra) around
>>the concept of getting people to 'wake up'. (
>>https://www.thinknpc.org/publications/represents-human-digital-age/ )
>>
>>I think if we're able to step it up, get the right framework of
>>leadership support as required for international engagement,
>>international leadership; a framework that can be engaged and relied
>>upon in a manner that has both funding and momentum; we might have a
>>chance...
>>
>>IMHO - It is NOT going to work is otherwise gainfully employed persons
>>(including but not exclusive to academics) wait until the risk-profile
>>lowers as to raise an internal project, off the back of the work done
>>by unpaid volunteers...
>>
>>It's impossible to parse the knowledge amassed by 'thought leaders'...
>>Things need to be done today, like updating the 'how to build a solid
>>App' hello world documents available https://github.com/solid/ to
>>support those working http://gitter.im/solid/ | whose work is spoken
>>about (to some degree)
>>https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/the-man-who-created-the-world-wide-web-has-some-regrets
>>|
>>https://www.economist.com/special-report/2018/06/28/how-to-fix-what-has-gone-wrong-with-the-internet
>>| and as far as almost anyone knows,
>>
>>There are no Australians involved in that project. I think TimBL might
>>be in AU soon? But that's hear-say... either-way, i'd prefer to see a
>>greater investment made into AU leadership in this knowledge economy
>>area. I read a big investment in this area was recently made:
>>https://www.themandarin.com.au/95308-australian-government-and-big-blue-mint-1-billion-advanced-technologies-deal/
>>To which whilst i have concerns about the sociological lock-ins, some
>>of these decisions may bring about by way of how information
>>management systems are designed to be mandatorily used - talking to
>>myself ain't going to help... indeed, even when influences are made,
>>without recognition for contributions - without good provenance
>>systems in place - the underlying foundations used to build these
>>'knowledge economy ecosystems' are still broken. It changes the nature
>>of the debate, from an Australia where universal income needs to be
>>factored into their design decisions; where changes to health-policy
>>to rationalise whether a royal commission into health (particularly
>>mental health) services is cheaper / better than considering the
>>impact to the reality of services provided as medicare fails to meet
>>the needs of good doctors and patients who need clinicians who take an
>>interest in them; more than the person managing the automatic
>>check-out machine at the local super market.
>>
>>Choices are being made - i see very little conversation about it. I
>>think this illustrates clearly - something is very wrong.
>>
>>IMHO - It is imperative for all commercial undertakings that a binding
>>commitments to human rights by way of an open forum, the means to make
>>use of appropriate infrastructure such as IETF (whilst it would be
>>nice if they supported RDF) as to ensure a commercially agnostic &
>>non-binding info sphere environment for socioeconomic support of life
>>(and the natural world). It is my opinion one of the very few means to
>>do this in a manner that works with government, but is not bound to
>>the obligations of a government department to defend its position
>>where the needs of government (inc. "rule of law", security, tax &
>>revenue protection) are at odds to the needs of the people, of
>>citizens. Sometimes the problem is about the behaviours of an agent,
>>sometimes its the nuances of an actor
>>
>>Some help with
>>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xKHONGoepiq29r7NMB9T6yd6kPcfWY2JsaDzK6OqnHE/edit?usp=sharing
>>would be useful. i think it needs to be broken down into a memorandum
>>or introductory document; followed by the SIG TOR & perhaps a 3rd
>>elements about working-group objects? not sure.
>>
>>It's progressed a bit from the 2013 document: MailScanner has detected
>>definite fraud in the website at "drive.google.com". Do not trust this
>>website:MailScanner has detected definite fraud in the website at
>>"drive.google.com". Do not trust this website:
>>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_-AWWDVv3V2SVpVR3E4T1hETlE/view?usp=sharing
>><https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_-AWWDVv3V2SVpVR3E4T1hETlE/view?usp=sharing>
>>(which might help others with background) and is less dense than
>>explaining the theoretical (and provenance, from 2000) relationship
>>with https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-consciousness/#3.2
>>
>>So, FWIW: I think its important to get the TOR done, before starting a
>>conversation with the banking sector about machine readable itemised
>>tax receipts; or other potential scopes of work, that i think are all
>>quite important and extremely complex.
>>
>>Meanwhile - i'm still of the thought that speaking about ensuring UHD
>>Sport is delivered freely to 'consumers' is an easier way to get
>>people thinking about the relationship between their homes and
>>families; and data. This is in-turn saying - let arrogance, of
>>operators, be considered immutable - 'long live consumers' (not that
>>they really think, what that accolade made for a pay-packet actually
>>means in areas beyond their field of expertise, like health. perhaps
>>media people think medical people are happy to subjugate themselves
>>because they are expected to live by a different set of moral rules -
>>perhaps they don't understand the pressures put upon them...)
>>
>>I have stated very clearly over many years (sadly in past, to deaf
>>ears) that ISOC-AU is the place to start making significant progress
>>on these issues. I am pleased new energy has started to grow, but it
>>is very fragile... These works don't do themselves, people need to
>>wake-up, ISOC-AU needs to improve its collaboration environment
>>pronto. Honestly, atm, i'm really not sure how to fund it. which is
>>troubling me. It is alot easier to send a series of issues / problem
>>statements '/ high-level solutions, to others overseas who are funded
>>to do the work involved in getting work-product done. Indeed also, in
>>an environment where there is a severe drought of appropriately
>>supported resources - its actually better to do things that way...
>>But it distorts the market. It makes people think, less energy is
>>expended than is real; it does not proportionately illustrate a
>>value-matrix around work-product; it distorts it, which leads to
>>reliability / security issues. A bunch of major websites, and the
>>ones made before them had no revenue or moreover certainly - not
>>enough. The investments made led to
>>https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1bHmB8_f7ASRHm97TwhZmmEQnTKU
>>- noting the distinction between those developed in the floppy disk
>>age - vs. those that developed as online data storage became a thing
>>--> in this next envisaged shift - i'd like to see how the Australian
>>Banking Sector remains a local industry. I would like to ensure the
>>definition of a great many things, remain local. it seems others also
>>have concerns:
>>http://about.abc.net.au/speeches/an-abc-fit-for-the-future/
>>
>>But perhaps these works need to uplift themselves, out of the gutter.
>>I'm not entirely sure what to do next. Am very interested in more
>>help. https://doodle.com/poll/idt7tyxwcpugkdha should help - I've also
>>created a new invite link for the WebCivics Slack set-up:
>>https://join.slack.com/t/webcivics/shared_invite/enQtMzk5MDA2NTMyMDk4LTU0OGQzMGI1ZGIzODBiMDBjYmMzNDRkMmE1ODI0YzBiNTdmMzY2MGQ3NDNlYzhkYzU1OTU3NjMzYmU5YjY1ZTc
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Tim.
>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 9:57 PM Timothy Holborn via members
>>><members at lists.internet.org.au> wrote:
>>>>FYI: https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/sga1817.doc.htm
>>>>
>>>>Twitter: https://twitter.com/UNSGdigicoop
>>>>
>>>>(Noting implicitly therein;
>>>>https://unstats.un.org/sdgs/metadata/?Text=&Goal=16&Target=16.9 )
>>>>
>>>>Do we know if any Aussies are involved?
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>Tim.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>
>>>Narelle
>>>narellec at gmail.com
>>
>>--
>>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>dangerous content by MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and
>>is
>>believed to be clean. _______________________________________________
>>members mailing list
>>members at lists.internet.org.au
>>http://lists.internet.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/members
>
>
>--
>--
>Todd Hubers
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>dangerous content by MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
>believed to be clean.
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.internet.org.au/pipermail/kbi-webcivics/attachments/20180717/2ede0ae1/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: trust.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 35049 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.internet.org.au/pipermail/kbi-webcivics/attachments/20180717/2ede0ae1/attachment-0001.jpg>
More information about the Kbi-webcivics
mailing list