[Kbi-webcivics] {Disarmed} Re: [IA - members] {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Secretary-General Appoints High-Level Panel on Digital Cooperation | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Tue Jul 17 10:50:05 AEST 2018

Hi Ian,

Good point. I notice that CivicUS isn't really supposed to be digitally
focused. My bad. So in that regard, they do have a particular purpose and
part to play.

Does ISOC-NZ have any interest in furthering ANZAC interests?

On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 at 10:46, ian.peter at ianpeter.com <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
wrote:

> Civicus is a well respected international grassroots NGO and I am glad to
> see them on such a committee to provide focus on matters that concern them,
> such as surveillance, privacy, human rights etc. That is a perspective
> certainly needed on this committee. I am also glad to see members with
> specific knowledge around blockchain, artificial intelligence and other
> emerging technologies being at the table. I think the business interests
> there are good - with tech giants such as Alibaba, Microsoft, Ebay and
> Google at the table, along with a reasonable cross section of nation states.
>
> So all in all I don't think it is too bad. Better representation of the
> global south might be able to be argued for, and I hope the committee calls
> on some of the resources from the old "usual suspect" internet governance
> interest groups for their inputs - although I think their lack of presence
> on the committee itself might actually be advantageous.
>
> Ian Peter
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Todd Hubers via members" <members at lists.internet.org.au>
> To: "Internet Australia" <members at lists.internet.org.au>
> Cc: "Todd Hubers" <todd.hubers at gmail.com>;
> kbi-webcivics at lists.internet.org.au
> Sent: 17/07/2018 10:09:58 AM
> Subject: [IA - members] {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: Secretary-General
> Appoints High-Level Panel on Digital Cooperation | Meetings Coverage and
> Press Releases
>
> Interesting stuff Tim,
>
> I had a look at CivicUS, and their platform is what worries me about
> Digital, Internet, and similar advocacy groups: they have almost unlimited
> scope, delving into youth, gender, and climate change. They have many
> "activities" around those focus areas. This is a clear departure from
> "focus". Not only is the scope broad, but it's also politically partisan,
> with no olive branch to gently coax in, and convince the ~50% of
> populations who lean conservatively.
>
> I think the benefit of the internet is the fact that all those political
> issues may be freely discussed. It's the freedom of the internet that must
> be a central focus, not social issues.
>
> So Tim rightly points out a key tool for that, TOR. But where is the
> pinned TOR headline on the CivicUS website. But that's something that
> should be the outcome of a correctly and narrowly defined mission, and a
> strong strategy for reaching goals.
>
> So it looks like CivicUS is something very different to what is needed
> globally to tackle the real problems of the world, but certainly a part of
> the solution.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 15:22, Timothy Holborn via members <
> members at lists.internet.org.au> wrote:
>
>>
>> (apologies if its' a bit of a rant - typing it - is helping to orientate
>> me)
>>
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 13:27 Narelle Clark <narellec at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> There is one Aussie, but I don't think he's been here for years (dual UK
>>> based in South Africa). It would be good to touch base and get a meet up
>>> should he make it here, though.
>>>
>>
>> I think the US/China leadership thing is quite strategic.  It would be
>> great to meet the Australian man noted to be involved.  I wonder how
>> CivicUS is similar in any way to my works on WebCivics...   Interestingly:
>> https://www.trustfactory.net/ is part of https://www.isolvtech.com/
>> which is based in SA. Which is a bit different to the local version...
>>
>>  they do a bunch of stuff around 'plausible deniability' which is always
>> interesting ;)
>>
>>
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> Narelle
>>>
>>>
>> MY LONGER RESPONSE
>>
>> Thoughts;
>>
>> [image: trust.jpg]
>>
>> It is most important solutions are defined rapidly. I think waiting for
>> people to catch-up, isn't going to help them. I hope we can continue to
>> pursue leadership in Australia but not at the cost of ensuring a
>> well-formed solution is made available in a timely manner.
>>
>> In Vint's recent presentation in Australia (perhaps in future - an
>> announcement to members might be made as to ensure the opportunity to know
>> these things are on); Vint remarked,
>>
>> “We have a big problem – I call it the digital dark age – in that we
>> don’t curate our digital content with much care until we realise its too
>> late. So I’m a big fan of trying to create and preserve data, to assure
>> ourselves that digital content can be moved from one medium to another –
>> that we are able to preserve software. Creating a sophisticated regime for
>> curating, preserving and accessing our data is just as important as
>> preserving the original bits of data.”
>> source:
>> https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/internet-past-and-present-vint-cerf-conversation-toby-walsh
>>
>>
>>
>> Negotiating the validity of Universal Human Rights (
>> http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ ); where those rights may be
>> appropriated or denied by way of new medium - as to render meaningful
>> service to proprietary commercial interests of a party (ie: rent-seeking
>> behaviours) isn't something to be entertained lightly; One might place bets
>> on the manifest characteristics through which the qualities of a mediums
>> characteristics to maintain good data-hygiene in some areas; and be allowed
>> to deteriorate in others, will continue to manifest, without good advocacy
>> support - enabling the means to discern the intricacies of good policy vs.
>> old ones, in our emergent 'knowledge economy'.
>>
>> Societies and their systems of government need verifiable claims -
>> imagine an agenda that wilfully sought to undermine the social purpose of a
>> court-room. Imagine being subjugated for seeking to protect the relevance
>> of a court of law. Maybe South Africa will be more progressive in these
>> areas than we are... maybe we're simply not equipped.
>>
>> If we're planning for a society that in a realm of dynamic data - is
>> sought to rely upon a basis of hear-say, due to a decline of available
>> options, perhaps the intended representation is that people don't really
>> need courts... these sorts of facetious objects are not entirely without
>> merit... When i was preparing for the TF conference, Anni was curating her
>> WebScience conference (held in Canberra) around the concept of getting
>> people to 'wake up'. (
>> https://www.thinknpc.org/publications/represents-human-digital-age/ )
>>
>> I think if we're able to step it up, get the right framework of
>> leadership support as required for international engagement, international
>> leadership; a framework that can be engaged and relied upon in a manner
>> that has both funding and momentum; we might have a chance...
>>
>> IMHO - It is NOT going to work is otherwise gainfully employed persons
>> (including but not exclusive to academics) wait until the risk-profile
>> lowers as to raise an internal project, off the back of the work done by
>> unpaid volunteers...
>>
>> It's impossible to parse the knowledge amassed by 'thought leaders'...
>> Things need to be done today, like updating the 'how to build a solid App'
>> hello world documents available https://github.com/solid/ to support
>> those working http://gitter.im/solid/ | whose work is spoken about (to
>> some degree)
>> https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/the-man-who-created-the-world-wide-web-has-some-regrets
>> |
>> https://www.economist.com/special-report/2018/06/28/how-to-fix-what-has-gone-wrong-with-the-internet
>> | and as far as almost anyone knows,
>>
>> There are no Australians involved in that project. I think TimBL might be
>> in AU soon? But that's hear-say... either-way, i'd prefer to see a greater
>> investment made into AU leadership in this knowledge economy area. I read a
>> big investment in this area was recently made:
>> https://www.themandarin.com.au/95308-australian-government-and-big-blue-mint-1-billion-advanced-technologies-deal/
>> To which whilst i have concerns about the sociological lock-ins, some of
>> these decisions may bring about by way of how information management
>> systems are designed to be mandatorily used - talking to myself ain't going
>> to help... indeed, even when influences are made, without recognition for
>> contributions - without good provenance systems in place - the underlying
>> foundations used to build these 'knowledge economy ecosystems' are still
>> broken. It changes the nature of the debate, from an Australia where
>> universal income needs to be factored into their design decisions; where
>> changes to health-policy to rationalise whether a royal commission into
>> health (particularly mental health) services is cheaper / better than
>> considering the impact to the reality of services provided as medicare
>> fails to meet the needs of good doctors and patients who need clinicians
>> who take an interest in them; more than the person managing the automatic
>> check-out machine at the local super market.
>>
>> Choices are being made - i see very little conversation about it. I think
>> this illustrates clearly - something is very wrong.
>>
>> IMHO - It is imperative for all commercial undertakings that a binding
>> commitments to human rights by way of an open forum, the means to make use
>> of appropriate infrastructure such as IETF (whilst it would be nice if they
>> supported RDF) as to ensure a commercially agnostic & non-binding info
>> sphere environment for socioeconomic support of life (and the natural
>> world). It is my opinion one of the very few means to do this in a manner
>> that works with government, but is not bound to the obligations of a
>> government department to defend its position where the needs of government
>> (inc. "rule of law", security, tax & revenue protection) are at odds to the
>> needs of the people, of citizens. Sometimes the problem is about the
>> behaviours of an agent, sometimes its the nuances of an actor
>>
>> Some help with
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xKHONGoepiq29r7NMB9T6yd6kPcfWY2JsaDzK6OqnHE/edit?usp=sharing
>> would be useful. i think it needs to be broken down into a memorandum or
>> introductory document; followed by the SIG TOR & perhaps a 3rd elements
>> about working-group objects? not sure.
>>
>> It's progressed a bit from the 2013 document: *MailScanner has detected
>> definite fraud in the website at "drive.google.com". Do not trust this
>> website:* *MailScanner has detected definite fraud in the website at
>> "drive.google.com". Do not trust this website:*
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_-AWWDVv3V2SVpVR3E4T1hETlE/view?usp=sharing
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_-AWWDVv3V2SVpVR3E4T1hETlE/view?usp=sharing>
>>
>> (which might help others with background) and is less dense than
>> explaining the theoretical (and provenance, from 2000) relationship with
>> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-consciousness/#3.2
>>
>> So, FWIW: I think its important to get the TOR done, before starting a
>> conversation with the banking sector about machine readable itemised tax
>> receipts; or other potential scopes of work, that i think are all quite
>> important and extremely complex.
>>
>> Meanwhile - i'm still of the thought that speaking about ensuring UHD
>> Sport is delivered freely to 'consumers' is an easier way to get people
>> thinking about the relationship between their homes and families; and data.
>> This is in-turn saying - let arrogance, of operators, be considered
>> immutable - 'long live consumers' (not that they really think, what that
>> accolade made for a pay-packet actually means in areas beyond their field
>> of expertise, like health. perhaps media people think medical people are
>> happy to subjugate themselves because they are expected to live by a
>> different set of moral rules - perhaps they don't understand the pressures
>> put upon them...)
>>
>> I have stated very clearly over many years (sadly in past, to deaf ears)
>> that ISOC-AU is the place to start making significant progress on these
>> issues. I am pleased new energy has started to grow, but it is very
>> fragile... These works don't do themselves, people need to wake-up, ISOC-AU
>> needs to improve its collaboration environment pronto.  Honestly, atm, i'm
>> really not sure how to fund it.  which is troubling me.   It is alot easier
>> to send a series of issues / problem statements '/ high-level solutions, to
>> others overseas who are funded to do the work involved in getting
>> work-product done.  Indeed also, in an environment where there is a severe
>> drought of appropriately supported resources - its actually better to do
>> things that way...   But it distorts the market.  It makes people think,
>> less energy is expended than is real; it does not proportionately
>> illustrate a value-matrix around work-product; it distorts it, which leads
>> to reliability / security issues.  A bunch of major websites, and the ones
>> made before them had no revenue or moreover certainly - not enough.  The
>> investments made led to
>> https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1bHmB8_f7ASRHm97TwhZmmEQnTKU -
>> noting the distinction between those developed in the floppy disk age - vs.
>> those that developed as online data storage became a thing --> in this next
>> envisaged shift - i'd like to see how the Australian Banking Sector remains
>> a local industry.  I would like to ensure the definition of a great many
>> things, remain local.  it seems others also have concerns:
>> http://about.abc.net.au/speeches/an-abc-fit-for-the-future/
>>
>> But perhaps these works need to uplift themselves, out of the gutter.
>> I'm not entirely sure what to do next.  Am very interested in more help.
>> https://doodle.com/poll/idt7tyxwcpugkdha should help - I've also created
>> a new invite link for the WebCivics Slack set-up:
>> https://join.slack.com/t/webcivics/shared_invite/enQtMzk5MDA2NTMyMDk4LTU0OGQzMGI1ZGIzODBiMDBjYmMzNDRkMmE1ODI0YzBiNTdmMzY2MGQ3NDNlYzhkYzU1OTU3NjMzYmU5YjY1ZTc
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 9:57 PM Timothy Holborn via members <
>>> members at lists.internet.org.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> FYI: https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/sga1817.doc.htm
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/UNSGdigicoop
>>>>
>>>> (Noting implicitly therein;
>>>> https://unstats.un.org/sdgs/metadata/?Text=&Goal=16&Target=16.9 )
>>>>
>>>> Do we know if any Aussies are involved?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Tim.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Narelle
>>> narellec at gmail.com
>>>
>>
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>
>
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> Todd Hubers
>
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